She Turned Social Media Into a Ministry — Jacqulyne Horbrook

Shaun Tabatt Show Episode 991: She Turned Social Media Into a Ministry — Jacqulyne Horbrook

Shaun Tabatt:
My special guest today is Jacqulyne Horbrook, and we're going to be talking about her brand new book, How to Be a Christian Influencer. Jackie, it is truly an honor. Welcome to the show.

Jacqulyne Horbrook:
Thank you so much. Glad to be here.

Shaun Tabatt:
Well, as always, it's my pleasure. As a longtime Christian publishing industry guy, I get excited to meet new authors all the time. So I'm really honored to have you on the show. I think the place I love to begin is get into a bit of your origin story. So, you know, before the days of social media, before BCI and having this book and all the things. I'd love to hear a little bit from your backstory. Where did your first understanding of influence begin? I love that it comes from a place people aren't gonna be expecting. Yeah.

Jacqulyne Horbrook:
You know, surprisingly, it came from being in higher education. I'm actually a former educator. If you look me up on social media, Jackie the Educator kind of gives it away. But for me, I was really trying to reach my students. I worked at a university and I was a director of diversity there, and I also taught some courses. And while I was there, I realized that there were a lot of students who were barely hanging on to paying attention to me in class. Their attention span was just so small, but for some reason they were glued to these phones for long periods of time. And I remember asking myself like, man, if only my face was on that phone, I would have like everything I needed from you guys.

Jacqulyne Horbrook:
No assignments would be missing. You would have all of your stuff together. And it almost hit me like an epiphany, like Man, I should probably become an influencer. And I became one, not for the world. I became one for my students. It was kind of starting off as a mini joke, like, let's see if they can ignore me if my face is on their screen. And as I started a platform on Instagram, I realized that when you start a platform, not just the people that you think or want to follow you will, it's open to the world. So, you know, my students of course started to follow me.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
They thought I was really engaging. They was like, let's, Miss Jackie, you're so funny. We love your content. Cause I always would educate people on topics that they weren't thinking about, but then it started an audience that was outside of my students started to follow me. And I realized like, wow, this is really a powerful tool. You know, I kind of stumbled on it, but it really made a difference with how my students paid attention to me. And then I had a broader audience in the world and yeah, I could talk about a wide range of topics, not just the things in my classroom. Not just the things that, you know, the administration would allow me to, but I had a voice where I could share all things that I was thinking and connecting with.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
So yeah, it became something that was bigger than what I expected. And from there I started to grow and I created a community for influencers called Black Christian Influencers after that. And from there, I really just started to learn all about how influencers can now evangelize using their platform.

Shaun Tabatt:
I don't want to miss something else that you share in the book. You talk a little bit about how your father used to preach on Chicago street corners. And what I love is that really shapes the work you're doing today. And so tell us a little bit of that story and how that influences kind of, kind of your work and your vision around how social media can be used.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
Yeah. So my dad is a pastor, still is to this day, and he came from the age of street team ministry. So, If you're a person who understands what that is, then you'll know, like street team ministry, you are out there on the corner. You got your bullhorn, you got your pamphlets. Sometimes you have like a sign that you wear on your back or put on, you know, a little stand. So he was that guy who would be out there just preaching the gospel and, you know, getting on the buses, passing out those pamphlets to people. And I've had the opportunity to watch him do that sometimes. And it really shaped me to see like how important evangelism is.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
I've seen him pray for people on the street corner and while he's praying for them, they're crying and sharing their story and they'll come into the church just from that moment. And from there, I learned the value of really ministering to people who wouldn't traditionally come into the church, but are still in need of the gospel. So that's really how I learned the impact of reaching the world. And from there, I began to correlate that, man, street team ministers are really just influencers, because, you know, they're sharing the gospel in a unique way. You know, those pamphlets that you used to see to have those cartoons on it with just, you know, the simple words about Jesus loves you, and they have these little cool characters on it. That's now what we do with our content online. We make it innovative. We make it stand out so that people can watch it and want to learn more about Christ.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
And, you know, I learned my influencing from him, and to this day, I feel like it's something we need to all be carrying, how we can influence the gospel and share it in very unique ways.

Shaun Tabatt:
And I'd love to hear a little bit about, as you realize you weren't just influencing students, but there's other people starting to follow you and take in what you're sharing. Did you ever have a time that you wrestled with kind of stepping into what we might call visible influence? You know, some of us, we've been on social media forever. It's part of our jobs and it just feels very normal. Yet for others, they feel like, I don't, I don't want to be the face of this, or they might kind of have imposter syndrome. We're like, gosh, I'm, I'm not supposed to be here, so to speak. Um, did you Did you wrestle with those things as you started to get traction, especially on your Instagram profile?

Jacqueline Horbrook:
Yeah. So it was something that I wrestled with, and I believe the administration that I worked for wrestled with because a lot of faculty members and professionals, as we know, sometimes think social media can be a bit shallow, superficial, and pointless, right? I've literally heard those exact words described as what happens online. But, you know, sometimes you have to go against the grain because, um, when you really look at the effectiveness of it. For me, I, I'm all about what is working. How can I really do what God has called me to do the best, right? And so I can go out there and say, Jesus loves you one by one. And that's great. And it has its purpose, or I can also share online and reach maybe 100 people, literally see the analytics that shows this post reached 100 people, this post reached 2,000 people, right? And that is also effectiveness, depending on what you share. So.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
I did come against people who were, um, kind of hesitant against it in the beginning, but I will say 90% of those people now have come to me and said, Jackie, we've seen what you've done. We've seen how effective it obviously is. You have a book now, you know, own your own business, and now you've trained other people to do the same thing. Teach us, right? And so I think some of us have to be the person in our group, right? In our family, at our church. Who is going to step out and say, you know what, I'm gonna try it and maybe I'll be the person now who can teach others. So the more of us who step out and try to do what others haven't, I think the more it's gonna become a normal thing.

Shaun Tabatt:
Well, these days as we all interact on social media, we're all influencers to some degree, but in terms of kind of that term Christian influencer, like how is a Christian influencer distinct from somebody who happens to be a Christian and they might also be influential? Is there more intentionality trying to go after being a Christian influencer?

Jacqueline Horbrook:
Absolutely. And that's a very good question because I think a lot of people use the term Christian influencer, but they don't have any content that shows that they are Christian. Now, can you still be a Christian influencer without sharing Jesus every day on your platform? Yes, there are ways. I believe that exemplifying the fruits of the spirit is one of those. So with your content, are you sharing things that are good? Are you sharing things that are lovely, of good report? Those are all ways that you still can show the love of Christ. You can still show that. Something about that person is different. I don't really see them saying things online.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
I don't see them cursing. I don't see them talking about people or spreading gossip and rumors. You know, that in itself draws people. So yes, you still can be considered a Christian influencer without labeling yourself with Christian content every day. But the one thing that I will say that separates an influencer who is Christian from just a person who is a regular influencer and then you got the Christian influencer title, right? If you want to be a real Christian influencer, you have to at some point share about Christ. You can't just be a secret Christian influencer. That's not it. You— it's no such thing as a secret Christian influencer.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
Somehow, some way, you need to have that. If it's even in your caption, if it's in your bio, you know, follower of Christ, something, right? That shows that, hey, this person is a Christian. Wow. I love how that. Connects, you know, that's a part of it. You know, I think that we have to find a way to incorporate it, even if it's not every day.

Shaun Tabatt:
Yeah, no hiding is part of the Christian influencer underground. You gotta, gotta be out there talking about Jesus, sharing your faith. One thing that may surprise people, you talk in the book a bit about Lucifer as a cautionary tale of misused influence. Why is that an important thing to think about? I wasn't expecting to find that in the book.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
Yeah, nobody would think like Lucifer is a Christian, is it not a Christian? He's an influencer, right? And I think that that's the part where we have to realize there are good and bad influences in in the world. And a lot of time we've seen the bad. We've seen the people who get on social media and misuse it. They lie, they manipulate, they cheat, and it flows, right? It's a viral thing. But I believe that Satan again was one of those people who misused influence, um, and he influenced a lot of things, right? Eve then, you know, ate the apple, and then she influenced Adam to do the same. And now we have The birth of things that we wish we never had to, and then the fall, right, from heaven. Those are things that all happened because of the influence that Lucifer had and the things that came after that now we have to deal with. Um, but I believe that we also have the opportunity to look at other influencers in the Bible.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
One of the best ones that probably isn't talked about enough is Jesus. Jesus, to me, was one of the most viral well-known influencers around, and he's done things that I believe today you would consider like viral, right? Preaching in non-traditional spaces, right? If you look at some content creators, they're walking around with their cameras in the grocery store or outside in front of, you know, large buildings. That's really what Jesus did. He didn't stay in one place. He always was traveling, preaching the gospel, doing things in unique ways, uh, bringing people to Christ, uh, talking to people that you wouldn't expect him to talk to, right? The woman at the well, woman with the issue of blood, like those are things that influencers would do. But I really do believe that we have to be just intentional with making sure that we're doing it for the purpose of winning people to Christ and not just for us to have clout and to have recognition and self-gratification because it's a very difficult balance. And I believe that's where we have a lot of people now who have become influencers for the wrong reasons.

Shaun Tabatt:
And for any of us working in this social media space, if you're a ministry leader, an author, or you could just be an average employee someday and you're somewhere, uh, you know, we're all really encouraged to talk about our work and the company we're in, all we do. Like we're, we're all influencers as we've already referenced, but you know, taking that next step is being intentional. Okay, I have to build a platform. I gotta be here, here, and there. And then all of a sudden you're the face of your own brand and you're trying to promote your own name. Like, talk to us a little bit about that, that challenge of kind of figuring out like, yeah, you're building a platform, you're in lots of spaces, but all of a sudden your name is almost a brand. Like, that's kind of a weird thing to understand.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
Yeah, it's something that I feel like we have to consistently wrestle with. Um, in the book, I have a checklist that can kind of ground you and remind you of your purpose because everyone, especially when you're constantly bombarded with things from social media, you can lose your way and you can lose your focus, right? So sometimes you have to take a, a mental assessment of what am I doing and why am I doing it so that you can make sure it aligns with what the purpose is. And if it doesn't, that means it's your sign to pivot and to go back to the direction you should. So for me, I think a lot of us have to just really have people around us. I talk about that accountability partners for social media, just like you would with working out. For me, I do not lose weight unless I have a friend who is also trying to lose weight with me. Something about that person who says, oh my gosh, I'm about to go get me that donut. And they're like, no, remember we have to stay strong.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
That's something that you need with social media as well. Right? You have to have somebody who can remind you of what you're doing it for and remind you of the goal. And I think those are ways that I have put in place for me not to stay off course and to remain focused on what the goal is. And I think it's very easy for us to lose track, but again, it's something you have to consistently check yourself on.

Shaun Tabatt:
I'd love to hear a little bit of feedback on, on how you've maybe dealt with this. Like, I feel like we can get into a space where our metrics, our growth, it, it can feed our ego. Or, you know, I have different friends and ministry leaders where all of a sudden they start kind of believing their own hype reel and all the great things people say about them. And you can kind of fall into a ditch or, or get off track, uh, when you, when you're in those spaces. So how do we steward, steward this thing well and not not drive our ego, you know, not believe all the crazy things people say about us. Cause you know, our, our heads can get a little too big along that journey.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
Absolutely. And that's a really great point. I think I've suffered from that. So when people talk about this, they're like, well, that's never me. Well, it probably is. And you, the fact that you don't even recognize it probably means you may be doing it right now. I say for me, have a place that's not online and for me, serve. Not online.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
I think sometimes we all get so caught up in, oh man, I have to create more posts. I have to create more content. I have to do, do, do. And we forget that it's a reality outside of social media. And so in the book, I talk about that. This is not all about influencing in front of people, but it's about being the person that you say online offline. And I think that's a part of what we have to be intentional about. So I serve in my local church regularly.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
I don't have a camera following me around showing, look at me, I'm passing out food to the homeless. It's not necessary. Sometimes it is for you to share, like how other people can serve and bring people to Christ, but you also need to be doing it offline. You also need to be having conversations with people. I have my background in counseling and sometimes I volunteer. I don't need to, but I'll volunteer and do some counseling for individuals in need, people who can't afford the services, right? And that's stuff that I feel like grounds me because it helps me to stop focusing on myself. We're in a world where self-focus is beginning to make us very too, um, what's the word I'm looking for? Narcissistic, I guess, but I don't like using that word too much because again, it's overused, but it's something that happens, right? We become a world that becomes very close to narcissistic because of our focus constantly on self. But for me, when you begin to talk to other people, help other people, for that moment, you realize, man, it's not all about me.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
There's a world happening. People are dealing with things that are bigger than me, and I need to be aware of that and make sure that I'm constantly not just here to advance my platform, but to also advance people who are trying to get better.

Shaun Tabatt:
Well, and I wanna focus on the key piece of advice for this interview that you gave a few minutes ago. Kind of, kind of that idea in terms of what you project online, let that be who you really are. And I give that same piece of advice to authors I'm working with where I'm like, you know, how you portray yourself and what you write in the book, everybody who reads your book is going to be expecting that that's who you are. That's how you live your life. That's how you conduct yourself. And so, you know, whatever you write about, they're going to expect you to be the poster boy or poster girl for that message. And I feel like that same thing applies to what we do on social media. You know, the people who follow us, they expect how we portray ourselves as who we really are.

Shaun Tabatt:
And so, you know, there can, there can be that temptation to kind of live, maybe live that double life of you have this clean, beautiful, sanitized, wonderful online life. But that, that's, it's a real fractured way to live if you're portraying one thing and doing another thing behind the scenes. And, and really that'll come crumbling down at some point. Like it'll, your two worlds will collide.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
Absolutely. And, you know, I think we've seen it play out so many times and For us, you would think it's like, oh man, I'm not going to repeat what that just, what just happened to that person. But we do constantly. And it's a slippery slope, you know, and it's something that happens over time. And I think that's what we have to realize. No one just ends up doing the things that you see, like, oh my gosh, I can't believe they're now in that controversy. It's usually like a slow slip down, you know, to get to that point. But we just have to always be aware.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
And like I said, have that grounding of things that happen offline. To remind us of the real world.

Shaun Tabatt:
Next, I'd love to have you kind of speak to that difference between visibility and impact. I feel like visibility is like broad scattershot, like we're, we're being seen by lots of people, but I feel like sometimes the things we do that are impactful, some of that's in secret, you know, responding to comments and DMs and messages from people and actually taking the time to pray for people when they ask us to. And, uh, you know, what's the difference there? How do, how do we steward those two? Because the visibility is very important for what we do., but I find the most impactful things I've seen in terms of my work with podcasting and social media over the last decade is stuff I don't tell anybody about because it's happening behind the scenes.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
Yeah. And if you are doing things behind the scenes, I definitely think that you need to think about what you're doing because it's, it's really a pathway, right? Your platform is a pathway and you should start with your visible content, the things that you share, but The follow-up is the parts, like you said, the content and the comments, right? The way that you interact with people and engage, the DMs, right? For me, I have a lot of people who private message me that I respond to. Now, nobody sees that. Nobody knows, but I open up my messages and I'll see people saying like, oh my gosh, I just lost my mother. And I saw this piece of content of you struggling with grief. And it really touched me. Can you just connect with me when you get a chance. When I do have time, I connect with people, right? Or I'll message them back or I'll send a little voice note.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
I'm good for a voice note. Um, because I think for me, that moment of touching people when they feel your content really makes that impact. That's what really makes it go further because now they're realizing like, she isn't just a person who's just saying this for public. She's actually really meaning it and she cares, right? And that's what we as believers really want people to resonate with, that we care. We aren't just like every other influencers who are chasing views, likes, and comments for the sake of growing the numbers of their platforms, but we're actually trying to impact the world so that people can later on be thinking about how they reached out to me and responded when they didn't have to, how they prayed for me when I didn't even think I needed to, right? Those are the moments that really stick with people and going the extra mile sometimes as God leads you. You know, maybe you're led to go help that person or meet with that person. It's been quite a few times, but every now and then the Lord will say, wow, go meet with that person in person, you know, do something more with them. I've had people who have reached out to me in the DMs and later on I became a mentor for them.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
Those are really the pieces that we have to focus on because I believe that's where we're really going to see the true impact of how we're reaching people online.

Shaun Tabatt:
In the book, you give us 4 components of influence. Can you give those to us and talk to us about, like, rank them, like, what's most important or where do we start?

Jacqueline Horbrook:
You know, I gotta look back in the book. I'm like, which ones were that? I talked about so many components.

Shaun Tabatt:
Oh, let's see. Vulnerability, transparency, originality, and relatability.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
Yeah, let's talk about vulnerability and relatability. I think those two are probably the ones that are hardest for people, mainly because you can't really have one without the other, right? Sometimes vulnerability opens the door for relatability. When you're vulnerable with people about the parts of your life that people don't see, that's being a, a really great gateway to how you can relate to them. And they can say like the things that they said to me, for instance, I had a battle with depression for a while. I was very depressed after losing my husband and really going through that battle of, you know, what do I do now? How do I take care of my kids and things like that? And I shared that part of my life online. I didn't have to, right? That part was very hard for me. Even I was very scared and I was very like, I don't know, really just really in a place of feeling like I don't even want to share it with myself. So why do I want to share it with the world? But the moment I was vulnerable about it was the moment that relatable people started reaching out.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
They're like, oh my gosh, I also had to deal with this. My husband had PTSD as well. And, you know, I now realize that when you said that, that's exactly what I was dealing with. And now we have conversation starters. That's the way you really connect with people and you become influencers. It's very different than motivational speakers. Motivational speakers usually have this wall between you and the people, right? Influencers, we kind of have a wall, but it's transparent. You can see through it to us.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
And that's the part of the book where I talk about transparency, where you're really just letting people into parts of your life. And allowing that to do the ministry, right? It's not a pastor role. We are not pastors. We are not in a role where we're trying to shepherd people, but we are trying to show people. And I think that's a really good point of what we need to do as Christian influencers.

Shaun Tabatt:
And that's a journey I feel like all of us have to weigh. Like, I lost a wife to brain cancer and we were very, very much sharing everything online. Like, God told me to share the whole journey. And it's, it's interesting, you know, a few years later as I go to conferences and events, and again, I've worked in the Christian publishing space for 11+ years, so I'm pretty well known. But of all the things that people talk to me about at trade shows, it's, it's not my books or podcast episodes. It's like, uh, you know, you shared such and such when Lynette was going through her cancer journey and that impacted my marriage. Or, you know, that I had a, a family member who was going through something similar and how you were praying and how you were handling that really helped us to. Have faith to keep praying in a direction and that sort of a thing.

Shaun Tabatt:
And it can be hard to be vulnerable like that online, but, you know, years down the road, you know, those are the things people are going to talk to you about when they see you. Sometimes that vulnerability creates a much wider impact than we would have ever imagined. It's not unlike a book. You know, I have so many authors who'd be like, I wrote this book and I was at this event and this person came up and said, hey, I love your book. We use it in this specific ministry context. And you're like, I would have never guessed this book would be useful there, but I'm so glad., and so, uh, that, that's my little vulnerability story where, you know, it was, it was more out of obedience as God said to share it, but the fruit that we've seen in so many other places, it was not anything I would've expected.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
Mm-hmm.

Shaun Tabatt:
Yeah.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
That's a real testimony of what this should look like.

Shaun Tabatt:
Uh, in terms of like your coaching and, and working with influencers, like what are the, maybe the things that separate those who like they plateau and get stuck versus those who flourish and keep going higher? Is there, is there something that separates those two? Because, you know, you're going to have ebbs and flows and seasons where you kind of hit a ceiling and then you break beyond it. But for those that never get past that ceiling, for those who just thrive and keep going, what's different about them?

Jacqueline Horbrook:
The main thing is adaptability. Social media is constantly changing. The algorithm is constantly having its own attitude. So we have to be able to adapt. We have to be able to change and be a person who really looks at what's happening, trends. Now, I talk about this in my book. A lot of us don't like to— I don't want to be a trend. I don't want to follow trends.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
No, you don't have to, but you need to know what the, what's happening in the world. You need to know what people are thinking about so that you can also be able to relate in a way, right? You're not going to copy, you're not going to try to be like them, but you are going to need to know. And I think that's a part of what I talk about in my book with how you can be adaptable, right? To what's changing in the world, making sure that you're keeping up with the topics that are relevant to what people are dealing with. So that you can pull them in again, right? Those are things that need to happen consistently, and you can't be in your own bubble and expect for you to really be relatable and to be adapting to what's happening. Again, I also tell people to take assessments of what people want to hear from you. That's a part of the process is not just becoming so stuck in your own way, but to bring people in. I constantly ask people like, hey, what do you want to hear from me? What, what value do you get from me? One of the things that I really like to share with people in my book is how you You can ask people that currently are around you, like your wife, your kids. I asked my kids and they will— be careful when you ask your kids, because they're going to say something that you weren't expecting, but it's honestly probably going to be something that you should remember and pay attention to.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
My daughter told me, she said, mom, you know what I like about you? I like that you're an amazing storyteller. When you say things, you say it in a way that's so like down to earth and you give examples that I never would think of. That's part of why I became a creator with Jackie the Educator is that, you know, apparently I can tell a story in a way that's very relatable to a person who's maybe like 10 or a person who's 100. And that's a part that I feel like is valuable for me. Now, when you ask people, they may say like, wow, I really like Shaun when you, you really talk about, you know, loving your wife very well. Or you talk about how you can, you know, love the people around you. Somehow you really make me love people that I don't want to love. Wow.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
That's something you do very well. There's Shaun's content now. That's really a part of what you can build yourself to be, a person who kind of shares things with people in a way that lets them realize like, wow, everybody's not so different. Maybe I should give more people a chance. So again, find what people really like to hear from you and kind of lock in on that.

Shaun Tabatt:
Yeah. Kind of having people help you identify your, your authentic self as they see you and what resonates with them. I'd love to have you speak to this and I think We're in this weird space where we're all trying to keep up. We're all trying to put our stuff on so many different platforms. We're now being presented with 80 million beautiful, wonderful AI tools to help us do this, that, and the other thing. So some, some level of imitation and copying is inevitable as we're, you know, doing what works and following the trends and, you know, doing the stuff that just is really hitting on our different social media channels. How do we find that balance of imitating, so to speak, where it makes sense, but also being creative, you know, going after where God's leading and directing us, because it can be easy just to try to imitate everything because it's faster. But then I feel like we lose so much of the joy and beauty of being creators if all we're doing is copying other people.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
Yeah, you know, that's a balance, right? Because sometimes you do need to look at the trends, like I said, but also the reality is that there is a level of innovation that Christ gives us. And that can only come from him. And we have to be open to that when he shares you when he shares what you should do. And that's a part of what I believe the Christian influencer does. We listen to Christ and that's our source of what we share. That's the source of what we do. And sometimes he may share things with you that you're like, man, nobody else is saying that. God, do you really want me to? Yes, that's, that, that's really another reason why you should, because he wants you to do things that you probably don't want to.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
For me, Whenever I am like, oh gosh, I don't want to share my testimony again. I always cry. I look really vulnerable online and it makes me look weak. God is like doubling down, like, yes, that's what I want you to do, right? Sometimes when you have that feeling of like, I really don't know if I should, it feels really hard when I do it. Yes, God has called us to do hard things. So use that, you know, and especially if it's making you look differently, like For some reason, we don't like looking weak online. We don't like looking like we don't have all the answers. And I believe that's not necessarily how Christ would want us to respond and react.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
You know, sometimes we don't, we are human, you know, and that's a part of what I believe as a Christian influencer, we should show more of our human nature. The fact that Christ is now inside of us and influencing how we respond to situations is really a part of journey that we have to share. You know, we don't have all the answers. I'm not always right. Sometimes I have to go back and respond and say, hey, I made a mistake there. I probably shouldn't have said that. And that in itself is also a representation of a Christian influencer.

Shaun Tabatt:
Yes, it's often those places where we've walked through deep valleys with Jesus where he's been like, hey, we've overcome this. I got other people who are where you started. So let's share this with them because they need to hear your story, your testimony, and I think the beautiful thing about being able to share things like that is like, it's just Jesus. Like, they're like, what's the secret? It's like, well, I'd, I'd be a crazy person in the loony bin, but for Jesus, you know, and that's not the answer they're always expecting, but I feel like that's the answer that they need because that's the thing that got us through those dark seasons. I think an interesting question we can ask ourselves as creators, as we're, you know, we're thinking about metrics and what it means to be successful. I mean, we all are doing that every month as we're trying to grow. If Jesus was measuring my platform, your platform, What is he going to count? What are the metrics that we should keep in mind as we're doing our reports and reviews every month? What's Jesus counting? What matters to him?

Jacqueline Horbrook:
Yeah, I don't think he's counting views. You know, I think that's one thing I can say for sure. I don't know his full mind, but I will say that we focus a lot on the views. We focus on that number. Oh my gosh, only 100 people saw this last post that I did and one person liked it. I don't think God would even care about likes. You know, cause he shared things that people didn't necessarily like. And I think that that's a part of something we have to remember.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
Yes, it's good. Yes, it's helpful sometimes for you to get that validation, but that's not the goal. The goal is for us to be effective and to share the reality of the gospel. And so sometimes I really tell people, even if you think you aren't reaching a lot, you feeling like, you know, my content is really not that important. I only got 100 views on that one. I tell people all the time, imagine if 100 people were in a room, like, would you say, man, it's only 100 of you guys here today, so it's not really worth me talking? I don't think so. I think you might be like, wow, I have a, a really attentive audience here. Let me steward this well.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
Right? Because if you reach 100 well and you steward that, you're going to get more and it's going to grow each time. That's how social media is. Steward the group that you have well, and then allow for that to grow. That means reaching out to them. If even if they don't reach out to you, you in the comments. I tell people all the time, if you're following me, that's my permission. I can reach out to you in the DM. I remember when I first got started, I would just go through all of the people that were following me and say, hey, how you doing? I would open their page up and I would go like and comment on their content, even if they didn't comment or like mine.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
And from there, I wasn't doing it for them to do it to me. I was just doing it because I'm like, wow, you thought enough to follow me. Let me find out who you are. And from there, my platform started to grow very quickly. I started to put out content. People would comment because they felt like they knew me because they were like, wow, this woman came to my page and she took the time out to actually interact with me. What, why can't I interact with her? Right. So that I feel like is another strategy.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
If you're feeling like, man, I'm not getting the views. I'm not getting the engagement that I want. Don't wait for people to come to you.

Shaun Tabatt:
You go to them. Well, and we all want those big numbers, but even in the terms of, you know, my world is publishing. I always think in the context of launching a book. If you have, you know, 250,000 not engaged followers, that doesn't do anything to promote what you're trying to launch. If you have 500 super engaged followers who share your everything and are excited, and they're going to go out and buy your book and that sort of a thing, that's extremely meaningful. And so there's a real value in interacting with as many of your fans and followers as you can. As you get bigger and bigger, that's super duper challenging to try to connect with everyone. Even if somebody has a smaller platform, those engaged fans are worth a lot more than just, you know, bot fans that don't, so to speak, that don't comment on anything.

Shaun Tabatt:
In terms of some of the, you know, maybe there's a dark side to social media in places, but I'm thinking more in terms of comparison, you know, because we all have friends who came on the scene after us and started this over there and this other thing over here. And, you know, they'll have a unicorn moment. And they get great success and they surpass us in a, in something that can be humbling or frustrating when it's like, man, I've been at this for 5 years or 10 years. And like, God, why, why did they get to go to the front of the line all of a sudden sort of a thing? How do we deal with comparison and celebrate other people's wins? You know, and even though we might be frustrated or feel a little jealous to know that we should stay in our lane and keep doing what God has us doing, but it can be difficult when, when you've toiled and worked so hard and you feel like, why did they get the overnight success? Now they probably have been working hard too, because there is no overnight success, But again, you know, sometimes people who've been doing it a way shorter time than us jump to the front of the line. How do, how do we deal with that tension? How have you dealt with that tension?

Jacqueline Horbrook:
Yeah, obviously we all get it. And I think the first step is to know that this is natural. Comparison is a very natural part of our lives. I think we do it every day. For me, I'll go outside and see a woman who has on like a really nice purse or a really nice outfit, and I'm like, man, how come I didn't dress better today? You know, or man, that person's in the gym and they have a six-pack. I don't have one. You know, like that's a comparison that happens to us every day. And so how do we deal with it then? Right.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
A lot of times we think, you know, well, that means I have to get better. I have to try harder. Yes, you can, but you also can realize like we have different lives. You know, that person who's in the gym and has the six-pack, maybe their life is different. Maybe their life allows for them to have more time than I do. And that's the first step is to acknowledge that I am not that person. We have different lives. We have different commitments.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
We have different levels of impact and we have different audiences as it relates to social media. You're not going to have the same audience as them. I know people, for me, who have— they're comedy creators. They have grown overnight. Like lots of people have a million followers. And for me, it would be like, man, how did you get to a million? And I'm still sitting over here with $50K, like what's going on? You know, and those are things that naturally come up for me, but then I'll realize their audience is different, right? My audience is, you know, filled with, with people who sometimes are ready to use the business that I have. And now their audience won't necessarily buy from them, but they will engage with them. So you have to realize you can't compare yourself to somebody else because they're probably comparing themselves to you to say, wow, how's her audience buying from her? Right? They have, she has a successful business with that.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
I wish I did. And that's the cycle of comparison. We're always going to have something that other people want and vice versa. But the fact that you have to realize that you can't be like everybody else and you honestly don't want to be will be the best thing that you can do for yourself.

Shaun Tabatt:
I think one of the places I want to land as we get ready to wrap up is how do we maintain longevity in doing what we do? Because a lot of us, when we start out, the social media stuff isn't our full-time job. It's maybe a side hustle promoting a, a podcast or a business or something that we're excited, excited about. But that comes outside of our, you know, 40, 50-hour work week. When it's not our full-time thing, how do we keep going even when it, it's late, late in the night and we're tired? How do we keep going 3 years, 5 years, 7 years down the road?

Jacqueline Horbrook:
Yeah, you sound like you're talking from experience, Jeff, but I will say for me, I've definitely learned to pace myself. There are a lot of people who get excited and in that moment of excitement, they over-create. I've seen a lot of people at the beginning of the new year, they were posting every day their content like, oh my gosh, I have this, this boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And now it's starting to phase out. It's coming to March. It's been 3 months. And now you're kind of pulling back because you're tired. I tell people when you start, get that content, but just because you get it doesn't mean you have to share it all.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
I'm a big component of stockpiling content. Because sometimes you may have times where you don't feel like creating, but if you have some that's already made, you can slowly begin to share that. So one, create realistic expectations of yourself. You're not going to probably start off creating every day. So don't do it. Don't start off. Even if you feel like it, man, I can create every day. Create, post maybe once or twice a week starting out.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
If you do feel like creating every day, do it, but don't post it all. Hold on to some of it because there are going to be days where you feel like doing nothing. Right. And that'll be a day where you use the stuff where you felt like doing a lot. So that's one of the biggest tricks I believe to making sure you have longevity is pacing yourself. But again, I think you have to also be realistic with yourself to know like, man, what can I realistically keep up? And if it's not doing things every day, then make sure you start off at the pace you can continue.

Shaun Tabatt:
And I think one of the keys to that is Finding platforms, obviously being in the places where your audience is, your fans are like you, you want to be in that place where they're going to congregate and come together. And also don't try to post on too many platforms, you know, pick 2 or 3 that work well for your niche and just keep plugging away there. I think that's one of the hard temptations now is there are so many different platforms. There's like, oh my gosh, I need to be on like 19 different things. And that's just, you know, for a lot of us, unless you have a team or some ultimate tool to do all the work, it's not sustainable. Even in the realm of comparison, like I work with a lot of authors and leaders who have very large ministries and very large teams. And, you know, in terms of content and podcasting, I'm competing with those sorts of folks for views. You know, you have to have, I think, those realistic expectations about like, these are the tools and what I have to work with.

Shaun Tabatt:
And so, you know, do the best job with what God's given you. When you can hire your first team member, awesome. Absolutely do that. But yeah, I think in the comparison game too, just remember that other people have different resources and it doesn't mean you're not being successful just because you aren't hitting the same numbers that they might be hitting. But in terms of like the reader's journey with the book, you know, as you think of people are reading and, you know, doing everything you're telling them to do when they get to that last page and close the book. Like, what does success look like for, for you, for, for that reader? How, how are they maybe moving forward differently? How has their social media game changed? Like, what's that takeaway you hope everybody gets?

Jacqueline Horbrook:
Yeah, I hope that they, they're encouraged to start creating throughout the book. Like, if you feel like, man, I made it to the middle and now I wanna create some content, please pause that book and go do the content. Because there are moments where I feel like you should be called to action. And that's the goal is that when you finish this book, you're gonna feel the call. You're gonna feel like, you know what, I may not be an extrovert. I may not be a person who likes to be in front of the camera, but because it's effective for the building of the kingdom, I'm going to do it, you know? And that's really the goal. I was never a person who liked the limelight. I didn't like, honestly, I prefer to be somewhere doing a Lego set, you know, with no cameras, but, you know, I realized that God, you've called me to reach and I'm going to do the best job I can.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
And right now that's on social media.

Shaun Tabatt:
And Jackie, in terms of people connecting with you, Finding out about the book, your business, all that you do, where's the best place for us to find you on the web?

Jacqueline Horbrook:
Yeah, you can find me @JackietheEducator on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, and then jackiededucator.com for all my personal reaches as well.

Shaun Tabatt:
And we'll make it easy like we do with every episode. We'll have links in the description in the show notes to Jackie's social media and her website. We'll make it so easy. You just click on through and you'll get what you need. Again, our book today, How to Be a Christian Influencer by Jacqulyne Horbrook. And Jackie, just so wonderful to speak with you today. Thanks for pouring into us. You've been an amazing guest for the show.

Jacqueline Horbrook:
Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.